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Last night..

Discussion in 'General Substance Abuse Discussion' started by Onceaddicted77, Jul 5, 2019.

  1. Onceaddicted77

    Onceaddicted77 Spam fighting Moderator & Realist Community Listener

    So how did everybody's night go last night that's in the good o USA. I Had a fun night, I didnt take any opiates but I'm not tottally innocent o_O heh
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
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  2. deanokat

    deanokat Community Organizer Community Listener

    I had a totally chill Fourth of July. Cleaned the entire inside of my fridge, then I grilled some beef and chicken kabobs. Life in America ain't that bad. :)
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  3. Onceaddicted77

    Onceaddicted77 Spam fighting Moderator & Realist Community Listener

    That sounds like a wonderful night brother, awesome sounds yummy too!
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  4. cheffy

    cheffy Community Champion

    It was a bit hard for me. Poor me ;). I know why holidays are so hard for depressed people. I cling to my daily ritual because it gives me a level of comfort that is really important to my well-being. During holidays, that whole ritual goes away and I'm forced to function in an unknown environment. Fear of the unknown. 'Unpredictable' becomes the rule of the day, and that really messes with my mind, stokes my fears and anxiety, and I become a class AAA introvert. I think this is true for people with mental illness in general, and that's why you hear about so many suicides during holidays. It's like losing your crutch and trying to get from here to there on a broken leg. Uh-oh, kind of makes you start thinking you need to go buy a case of beer and a bottle of scotch. So today I had a long talk with my wife about the whole state of my being - it was hard to get started talking but I breached the subject and we talked for a long time. And that helped a lot. A LOT! Thank God I have a wonderfully supportive wife (and family for that matter). So now today is OK and I sit here kind of feeling stupid asking myself why I was so down and worried yesterday, and feeling guilty for making it bad for everyone. Of course I do know why, but the question still pops up and bothers me. It's just way to easy to fall when you're depressed. So I'm OK - It came and it went, just like it always does. I hope I didn't bring you guys down by thinking about all this. I'm just glad you're there to talk to :).
  5. True concern

    True concern Moderator

    I am glad you are here to listen my friend, also I enjoy the communication we have,I feel comforted by thing's you share,not sure why but I just do
  6. cheffy

    cheffy Community Champion

    Thanks @True concern, you're kindness here means so much. You are all just the best.
  7. Dominica

    Dominica Recovery Advocate @ Moving Beyond Codependency Community Listener

    @cheffy so glad you were able to talk with your wife and she is so supportive! that's great. and glad the day ended up going well for you! :)

    my fourth was relaxing...and met some friends for dinner. saw fireworks the night before, which i don't love to be out at night...haha. but it was worth it.

  8. True concern

    True concern Moderator

  9. Onceaddicted77

    Onceaddicted77 Spam fighting Moderator & Realist Community Listener

    I hate to hear your depressed brother there are natural supplements out here that really work some may or may not be regulated by the FDA but they work. I'll name a cpl I have experience with and leave it you but man you dont have to live that way and you dont have to be addicted to big pharma medicine or alcohol.

    1st is Kratom. It really really works and comes in 3 flavors and is cheap.

    White vein. A little Pain relief with Increased energy and mood slight euphoria
    Green vein. More pain relief and inbetween white and red
    Red vein. Most pain relief this one is Sedative and relaxing and euphoric.

    Kratom gets a bad rap because it has some alkaloids that are either partial agonist or antagonist on the opiate receptors, that sounds bad but there are a ton of plants that have these alkaloids it does not make them an opiate. For instance chocolate has alkaloids that attach to the opiate receptor but like kratom it does not signal the same pathways that would constitute it as an opiate.

    Kratom is related to the coffee tree not the Papaver somniferum (opium poppy)

    2nd is Kava I have a little experience with this it will relax ya increase mood and sociability.

    God bless ya I only tell you about these because they work and are natural.
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  10. deanokat

    deanokat Community Organizer Community Listener

    Sorry the Fourth of July was tough for you, @cheffy. As someone who struggles with depression, I can totally understand your feelings. But I'm really glad you had a long talk with your wife. That's a terrific. I have an incredibly supportive wife, too, and I know what a wonderful thing that is. We are lucky men!

    I hope the rest of your weekend was better. And I hope the upcoming week is a good one for you.

    We're always here if you need us. That's what this community is all about. :)
  11. deanokat

    deanokat Community Organizer Community Listener

    No offense, @Onceaddicted77, but I have to speak up and warn everyone to be very, very careful with kratom. Yes, a lot of people say it helps them in a lot of ways. But there are others who have had really bad experiences with it. And there just hasn't been enough research done to declare it definitively good or bad. Here are a couple of articles that might help people:

    What Is Kratom?

    5 Things About Kratom You Need to Know

    As far as kava goes, I really know nothing about it. But I always urge people to be vigilant when putting new stuff into their bodies, even if it's a natural supplement. Maybe ask your doctor about it, too.

    Just my two cents.
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  12. Onceaddicted77

    Onceaddicted77 Spam fighting Moderator & Realist Community Listener

    No offense taken @deanokat I really do understand and appreciate your concern. Seriously thank you from the bottom of my heart I know you care about our well being. I do have some experience with it and I do understand that it dosnt make me an expert. But when it comes to two lesser evils which is better? Alcohol benzos opiates we all know where those lead. I'll admit I've taken it and I'll admit it did make me feel energized and motivated and some euphoria. I do understand they dont know everything about the plant and the biggest thing is they dont know how it can interact with other drugs.

    It has been used for thousands of years and even despite the 2 very questionable deaths out of millions of people who use it it's been proven pretty darn safe. Safer than our cigarettes safer than any opiate and safer than our alchohol. All of which kill millions are very addictive and very legal.

    There are some very interesting things about Kratom it actually can do some reverse work on our receptors as in upregulation. I have read the scenice behind it and yes even though it can be addicting I believe its no more addicting then my cup of Joe or my monster energy drink or just plain o sugar. Because I feel like crap and unmotivated without those more than anything.

    I dont condone any substance for anyone just because I use it or have used it. I always suggest anyone to do your own research from multiple sources as only one can very one sided sometimes.

    I am into holistic healing and I do believe God put everything here we need without having to synthesize it to work.

    Thanks much love and respect.
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
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  13. Joshstillclean

    Joshstillclean Stupidity Exists - Fact.

    so i read these two articles and i have been an avid outspoken opponent of kratom since i first heard about it.
    i was reading the 5 things you need to know about kratom and they demonized it so horribly that it remiinded me of the videos they show you in the dare program where it shows someone rolling a joint and then they all of a sudden are crazy-like lock me up and bar the windows nuts...

    so this sparked my curiosity, and i'm not going to take sides and i don't want to debate anything but i find it so very strange that so much money went into creating oxycontin, yet they haven't studied an ancient herb that grows fresh out of the ground. seems like mabey big pharma doesn't want anyone to know about this.

    I'm with you Dean-it scares me. In fact just yesterday i was telling someone about a how kratom had me concerned.
    when i read that sentence about how you can sit back and enjoy the narcotic effects of this drug-like thats not what you do at a bar, it litteraly made me wonder why is this being demonized.
    i am going to do more research myself. i can say with almost absolute certainty that it's not as bad as oxycontin.
    just food for thought. and really i'm talking to myself here. i'm wondering if i have been speaking down on something that has emmense benifits for some people like cannabis oil does for me. and that's as bad as heroin in some states.
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  14. Onceaddicted77

    Onceaddicted77 Spam fighting Moderator & Realist Community Listener

    A long time ago during one of my withdrawl episodes from a 240mg snorting oxycontin a day habit I tried Kratom I dont even remember what color it was I took but I took spoonfuls of it I was willing to try anything I was hurting in a bad way. but I can tell you one thing it didnt do **** to help with my withdrawl nothing could punch through that withdrawl unless it was Herion, oxy or about 15 percoset 10s lol opioids are the fucking worst thing ever invented.
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
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  15. Joshstillclean

    Joshstillclean Stupidity Exists - Fact.

    so like i said i really am doing research on this whole kratom deal...obviously i'm physically dependant on subutex. but a low dose and i don't have to go to the clinic everday. something i do not miss about the methadone clinic.
    i have been wondering if i can use kratom instead of this super over 40 times stronger than heroin medication to help my kindeys not die-only my left one is at risk actuallly but still.
    yes people have died while on kratom. that's like saying people have died while on shrooms or pot, they were all doing something else from what i have read. but they didn't know they were doing anything else because the kratom was laced, or cut...
    but i did find an alarming number of statistics that show that MOST not some MOST head shops have something very dangerous mixed with the kratom-like someone cutting dope. so i would NEVER buy anything from a local shop, some shop owners are not even aware that their shipment was tampered with. this stuff passes through so many hands that it's like saying a sack of coke is safe because you use this girl all the time for you supply- she might not want to kill you but you just can never know whats in it.
    i did find a website that will sell you the actual tree. no joke you can grow it yourself...
    i also sent an e-mail to another company that claimed to steam treat all there stuff fince the beginning of 2018 so stop salmanela and other outbreaks from occuring. they claim to have no middle man. from grower to company to you.
    but i'm still waiting to hear back from them. if it turns out that this stuff MAY BE safe then i will change my mind about my firm (personal) stance on kratom.
    As for right now i would strongly advise anyone who uses kratom to NOT buy it from a head shop. because of the very reason @deanokat pointed out...
    heck, i very badly want to not have to take pharmaceuticals...but my poor kideys just can't take it. it sure would be nice if there were an herbal remedy. by the way some, not all, chemicals in the plant are classified as opiates-just not opiods. (so still has a high binding affinity to the mu and delata receptors-the ones heroin sticks to to get you high)
    i'm seriously going about this research because i need to find something for me to help me get off of being dependant on a sub doctor the rest of my life.
    i'll post my findings when i hear back in a new thread under the other substances forum.
    and i'm not condoning ANYTHING. for real guys this stiff can be dangerous if mixed with blood pressure meds.
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  16. Onceaddicted77

    Onceaddicted77 Spam fighting Moderator & Realist Community Listener

    These results show that mitragynine and the oxidized analogue 7-hydroxymitragynine, are partial agonists of the human mu-opioid receptor and competitive antagonists at the kappa- and delta-opioid receptors. We also show that mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine are G-protein-biased agonists of the mu-opioid receptor, which do not recruit β-arrestin following receptor activation.

    β-arrestin is what causes respiratory depression and other CNS effects
  17. Joshstillclean

    Joshstillclean Stupidity Exists - Fact.

    i know and this seems contradictory almost to me. it doesn't behave like any other opiate-although 7-HMG and the mitragynine metabolites are, from what i can tell having the same effect. granted with the same agonist-antagonist effect as buprenorphine at the mu and kappa- at least from what i've read so far. do you have the link to this info? also found it intersting that bupe doen't hit on the delta-opioid receptors...have you read this elsewhere? this according to wikipedia. (about the bupe)
    i'd like to read what you were just talking about- that's good info.
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  18. Onceaddicted77

    Onceaddicted77 Spam fighting Moderator & Realist Community Listener

    Opioid receptor modulatorEdit
    Buprenorphine has been reported to possess the following pharmacological activity:[20]

    • μ-Opioid receptor (MOR): Partial agonist. Binds with high affinity, but only partially activates the receptor. This property allows buprenorphine to act similarly to full opioid agonists at lower doses (mainly in non-tolerant individuals), reaching a ceiling/plateau at higher doses after which there is no further increase in typical opioid effects (therapeutic or recreational).[27] This behavior is responsible for buprenorphine's ability to block most MOR agonists and the phenomenon of precipitated withdrawal when used in actively opioid dependent persons.
    • κ-Opioid receptor (KOR): Antagonist.[28]
    • δ-Opioid receptor (DOR): Antagonist.[28]
    • Nociceptin receptor (NOP, ORL-1): Weak affinity. Very weak partial agonist. May be involved in lack of respiratory depression with buprenorphine in overdose.
    In simplified terms, buprenorphine can essentially be thought of as a non-selective, mixed agonist–antagonist opioid receptor modulator,[29] acting as a weak partial agonist of the MOR, an antagonist of the KOR, an antagonist of the DOR, and a relatively low-affinity, very weak partial agonist of the ORL-1.[22][30][31][32][33][34]

    Although buprenorphine is a partial agonist of the MOR, human studies have found that it acts like a full agonist with respect to analgesia in non-opioid-tolerant individuals.[35] Conversely, buprenorphine behaves like a partial agonist of the MOR with respect to respiratory depression.[35]

    Buprenorphine is also known to bind to with high affinity and antagonize the putative ε-opioid receptor.[36][37]

    Full analgesic efficacy of buprenorphine requires both exon 11-[38] and exon 1-associated μ-opioid receptorsplice variants.[39]

    The active metabolites of buprenorphine are not thought to be clinically important in its central nervous system effects.[35]

    Other actionsEdit
    Unlike some other opioids and opioid antagonists, buprenorphine binds only weakly to and possesses little if any activity at the sigma receptor.[40][41]

    Buprenorphine also blocks voltage-gated sodium channels via the local anesthetic binding site, and this underlies its potent local anesthetic properties.[26]

    Similarly to various other opioids, buprenorphine has also been found to act as an agonist of the toll-like receptor 4, albeit with very low affinity.[24]
  19. Onceaddicted77

    Onceaddicted77 Spam fighting Moderator & Realist Community Listener

    Got it from here brother
  20. Onceaddicted77

    Onceaddicted77 Spam fighting Moderator & Realist Community Listener

    If kratom was to simulate an opioid I'd say bupe would be the closest. Antagonist bind but do not activate. Antagonist at the delta is why they say it has low tolerance build
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